From prthomas at iol.ie Tue Aug 1 07:15:39 2006 From: prthomas at iol.ie (prthomas) Date: Tue Aug 1 07:16:10 2006 Subject: [Healing] Inactivity Message-ID: <025401c6b53a$4e7be1b0$f732869f@George> I have been a subscriber for a month now and so far there has been no action on the forum.Or at least I`ve received none of it. I wonder why this is. If it is just a matter of inactivity,I think that is really sad in that dialogue/discussion/debate about the healing ministry just doesn`t spark interest any more. In a very troubled and increasingly unchurched Western world to neglect the second part of the great commssion is to betray the Christ we claim....or is that to confrontational ? Blessings. Peter RT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060801/6c9c645d/attachment.htm From PreachingFriar at aol.com Tue Aug 1 15:52:08 2006 From: PreachingFriar at aol.com (PreachingFriar@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 1 15:52:21 2006 Subject: [Healing] Inactivity Message-ID: In a message dated 8/1/2006 2:16:28 AM Central Daylight Time, prthomas@iol.ie writes: I have been a subscriber for a month now and so far there has been no action on the forum.Or at least I`ve received none of it. I wonder why this is. If it is just a matter of inactivity,I think that is really sad in that dialogue/discussion/debate about the healing ministry just doesn`t spark interest any more. In a very troubled and increasingly unchurched Western world to neglect the second part of the great commssion is to betray the Christ we claim....or is that to confrontational ? Blessings. Peter RT Peter, Blessings. I have been subscribed to the healing list on and off for a couple of years. I seldom remember any activity. Perhaps we can get something going? Can you explain you interrupt the second half of the Great Commission as a mandate for healing ministry? In Christ, Fr. Kevin OP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060801/ed2ee413/attachment.htm From prthomas at iol.ie Tue Aug 1 17:05:32 2006 From: prthomas at iol.ie (prthomas) Date: Tue Aug 1 17:05:54 2006 Subject: [Healing] Fw: Re:[Healing-Inactivity] Message-ID: <00a201c6b58c$b406ef00$4733869f@George> ----- Original Message ----- From: prthomas To: Healing-request@justus.anglican.org Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 6:01 PM Subject: Re:[Healing-Inactivity] In response to Fr.Kevin I have always understood the `Great Commssion`as being that given by Jesus to the 12 when he sent them out as in Luke 9. 1 & 2. `....to preach the kingdom of God and heal the sick.` A reference also appears in Matthew 10. verse 1 and verses 5 - 8. Here the healing dimension is expanded to include raising the dead and driving out demons. In my view the mainstream churches have neatly avoided this responsibility of ministry. As one who has experience and training both in the healing and in the deliverance ministry - and perhaps some little gifting in both - I find this disregard of the wishes/commands of Jesus disappointing. At one time I was the only approved Bishop`s Advisor on the paranormal in the Church of Ireland. My background is on the high catholic side of Anglicanism with a total commitment to the efficacy of the Blessed Sacrament. Question : Why, by and large, do the main denominations sidestep healing/deliverance ? Is is fear of failure, lack of faith, or ignorance. Blessings in His Name. Fr.Peterr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060801/ad3afa39/attachment.htm From RevdChris at aol.com Tue Aug 1 17:34:22 2006 From: RevdChris at aol.com (RevdChris@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 1 17:34:40 2006 Subject: [Healing] Fw: Re:[Healing-Inactivity] Message-ID: Your question ? the flippant answer is 'yes'! The thoughtful answer is, I believe (as a priest in the Church of England) that we have come through some hundred years of being convinced that scientific medicine, once perfected, would cure all ills. Medicine is quite wonderful, and gives us much cause to rejoice with thanks, but increasingly the world is recognising that there is more to wholeness than what medicine offers, and we are learning to recover the greater, Christian, understanding of healing. For many that is scary, reeks of mumbo jumbo and holds the risk of humiliating failure. So I believe we need to tread sensitively and carefully, offering all that God has to offer through the healing ministry of his Church. You ask why this group is silent ? sadly some years ago it disintegrated into sad squabbling and fizzled out. It would be very good if it came alive again in a more constructive and helpful way. So, hi all, and peace to us all! Christine Garrard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060801/06eb12ba/attachment.htm From PreachingFriar at aol.com Tue Aug 1 17:40:42 2006 From: PreachingFriar at aol.com (PreachingFriar@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 1 17:40:53 2006 Subject: [Healing] Fw: Re:[Healing-Inactivity] Message-ID: In a message dated 8/1/2006 12:07:20 PM Central Daylight Time, prthomas@iol.ie writes: Question : Why, by and large, do the main denominations sidestep healing/deliverance ? Is is fear of failure, lack of faith, or ignorance. Blessings in His Name. Fr.Peterr Fr. Peter and Mother Christine, I think you both have raised important issues. Maybe a good deal of the mainline's depature from deliverance/healing ministry is also an attempt to be more paltable to educated and contemporary people. Of course, if you were to watch any number of TV shows here in the U.S. or visit the New Age section in a bookstore you would know that people are looking beyond traditional medicine for spiritual answers and insights. In Christ, Fr. Kevin OP Anglican Order of Preachers (Dominicans) "To Praise, To Bless, To Preach the Word of God" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060801/5a1b90e2/attachment.htm From a.jane.mcpherson at medtronic.com Tue Aug 1 17:45:02 2006 From: a.jane.mcpherson at medtronic.com (Mcpherson, A. Jane) Date: Tue Aug 1 17:45:16 2006 Subject: [Healing] Fw: Re:[Healing-Inactivity] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1D1921872FB03542BB7E4ED7FF4C1F07EFBB0D@JAXM1BMSGM01.ent.core.medtronic.com> Good afternoon, all. I have been a member for some time and sadly gave it up when all that squabbling took place. At my point of reference, (in the healing ministry for 9+ years, loads of training, etc.) it is ignorance that keeps the church from embracing its healing heritage. And quite like Christine, some of it seems scary to those who are not exposed to healing prayer. I am blessed to be in a church where there are active prayer ministers who are eager to boldly pray for parishoners for their various ills. ICXC, Jane McPherson Jacksonville, FL USA ________________________________ From: healing-bounces+a.jane.mcpherson=medtronic.com@justus.anglican.org [mailto:healing-bounces+a.jane.mcpherson=medtronic.com@justus.anglican.o rg] On Behalf Of RevdChris@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 1:34 PM To: Healing@justus.anglican.org Subject: Re: [Healing] Fw: Re:[Healing-Inactivity] Your question - the flippant answer is 'yes'! The thoughtful answer is, I believe (as a priest in the Church of England) that we have come through some hundred years of being convinced that scientific medicine, once perfected, would cure all ills. Medicine is quite wonderful, and gives us much cause to rejoice with thanks, but increasingly the world is recognising that there is more to wholeness than what medicine offers, and we are learning to recover the greater, Christian, understanding of healing. For many that is scary, reeks of mumbo jumbo and holds the risk of humiliating failure. So I believe we need to tread sensitively and carefully, offering all that God has to offer through the healing ministry of his Church. You ask why this group is silent - sadly some years ago it disintegrated into sad squabbling and fizzled out. It would be very good if it came alive again in a more constructive and helpful way. So, hi all, and peace to us all! Christine Garrard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060801/ce9f5e41/attachment.htm From ttemple5 at bellsouth.net Tue Aug 1 17:58:31 2006 From: ttemple5 at bellsouth.net (Tim Temple) Date: Tue Aug 1 17:58:40 2006 Subject: [Healing] Why no healing & deliverance In-Reply-To: <00a201c6b58c$b406ef00$4733869f@George> Message-ID: I'm Tim Temple, fully trained & experienced with ministering God's grace for healing and exercising Jesus' authority to drive out demons from people, places and charmed objects. I've lurked on this mail list for a while in case someone wrote needing help. I didn't put anything out here because I've got better things to do than argue with occultists. Over time, they gradually dropped out from lack of feedback. We'll probably hear from one shortly. In the early years of the Order of St. Luke the Physician, there was almost no divine supernatural practiced in the church. Satan's forces kept a low profile about their witchcraft. When a priest & his wife started the Order of St. Luke, healing was new and somewhat risque in the church. Satan's forces tried to squelch it, to no avail. So Satan's forces changed tactics and started flooding the market with false signs & wonders. They have infiltrated the Order of St. Luke, to pervert it and control it. Due to this problem, I made a website called, http://www.orderofsaintpatrick.org , After Saint Patrick who totally defeated the witchcraft in Ireland and won the country for Christ. When I became a Convener for the Order, I received no support from the regional Episcopal priests. I was appalled at how much of the time was spent explaining what was occult and what was divine. I was never able to get a core group going, so it gradually declined and died. A good book on what happened to the gifts of the Holy Spirit and deliverance in the church through the centuries is called, "The Nearly Perfect Crime" by Francis MacNutt. It covers everything from the first century to date. -Tim Temple christheals.org -----Original Message----- From: healing-bounces+ttemple5=bellsouth.net@justus.anglican.org [mailto:healing-bounces+ttemple5=bellsouth.net@justus.anglican.org]On Behalf Of prthomas Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 1:06 PM To: Online Order of St Luke Subject: [Healing] Fw: Re:[Healing-Inactivity] ----- Original Message ----- From: prthomas To: Healing-request@justus.anglican.org Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 6:01 PM Subject: Re:[Healing-Inactivity] In response to Fr.Kevin I have always understood the `Great Commssion`as being that given by Jesus to the 12 when he sent them out as in Luke 9. 1 & 2. `....to preach the kingdom of God and heal the sick.` A reference also appears in Matthew 10. verse 1 and verses 5 - 8. Here the healing dimension is expanded to include raising the dead and driving out demons. In my view the mainstream churches have neatly avoided this responsibility of ministry. As one who has experience and training both in the healing and in the deliverance ministry - and perhaps some little gifting in both - I find this disregard of the wishes/commands of Jesus disappointing. At one time I was the only approved Bishop`s Advisor on the paranormal in the Church of Ireland. My background is on the high catholic side of Anglicanism with a total commitment to the efficacy of the Blessed Sacrament. Question : Why, by and large, do the main denominations sidestep healing/deliverance ? Is is fear of failure, lack of faith, or ignorance. Blessings in His Name. Fr.Peterr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060801/0e3e1350/attachment-0001.htm From prthomas at iol.ie Tue Aug 1 17:06:41 2006 From: prthomas at iol.ie (prthomas) Date: Tue Aug 1 18:33:41 2006 Subject: [Healing] (no subject) Message-ID: <00b601c6b598$e41b5210$4733869f@George> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060801/5a0bd2ca/attachment.htm From jab12 at prodigy.net Tue Aug 1 20:05:03 2006 From: jab12 at prodigy.net (JOHN & LINDA SURINCHAK) Date: Tue Aug 1 20:05:14 2006 Subject: [Healing] Inactivity Message-ID: <20060801200504.88732.qmail@web81209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Peter...There are several Orders of St Luke on the internet. These vary by denomination, specialization and origin. The actual healing International Order of St Luke the Physician is based out of San Antonio, Texas (www.orderofstluke.org). Go to that site and click on Discussion Forum on the left hand side of the page. It has a lot more activity on it. Hope this helps. Peace....John+ Br John Surinchak +, OSL Santa Venetia Healing Ministry (UAC) Non Ministrari sed Ministrare -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060801/29c92422/attachment.htm From reid at mejac.palo-alto.ca.us Tue Aug 1 20:14:45 2006 From: reid at mejac.palo-alto.ca.us (Brian Reid) Date: Tue Aug 1 20:14:06 2006 Subject: [Healing] Inactivity In-Reply-To: <20060801200504.88732.qmail@web81209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060801200504.88732.qmail@web81209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I think I should just shut down this email list. It hasn't had any activity worth mentioning, other than bickering, in about 6 years. From prthomas at iol.ie Tue Aug 1 20:27:29 2006 From: prthomas at iol.ie (prthomas) Date: Tue Aug 1 20:31:15 2006 Subject: [Healing]-Inactivity. Message-ID: <00fd01c6b5a9$60dc5230$4733869f@George> Any book by Francis McNutt is excellent. Balanced and theologically sound -at least I think so - and largely based on personal experience of the power of Jesus. I particularly commend `Healing`published in 1988. Another author worth reading is Martin Israel. When I was in full-time parochial ministry in the UK I had a healing eucharist every fourth Sunday in the evening. Everyone received the laying on of hands with prayer and this was concluded with the giving of the Blessed Sacrament. The healing ministry was an integral - and not an added on - part of the liturgy. Wonderful things happened and there is no doubt in my mind that Jesus was in the midst. Here in Southern Ireland I have had some experiences with troubled New Age folk who, perhaps unwittingly, had encountered the unquiet dead in building and specific bits of land. Maybe this came about because of their heightened spiritual/psychic awareness. I think that many in Western Society have rationalised out anything to do with the unknown and relating to the spirit/emotions. The manifestations were dealt with undramatically by myself and another priest. Blessings. Fr.Peter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060801/e82d0b2c/attachment.htm From prthomas at iol.ie Tue Aug 1 20:33:19 2006 From: prthomas at iol.ie (prthomas) Date: Tue Aug 1 20:33:50 2006 Subject: [Healing] Inactivity References: <20060801200504.88732.qmail@web81209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <011301c6b5a9$bb4612b0$4733869f@George> Thank you very much. Will do. Peace and Blessings. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: JOHN & LINDA SURINCHAK To: Healing@justus.anglican.org Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 9:05 PM Subject: [Healing] Inactivity Peter...There are several Orders of St Luke on the internet. These vary by denomination, specialization and origin. The actual healing International Order of St Luke the Physician is based out of San Antonio, Texas (www.orderofstluke.org). Go to that site and click on Discussion Forum on the left hand side of the page. It has a lot more activity on it. Hope this helps. Peace....John+ Br John Surinchak +, OSL Santa Venetia Healing Ministry (UAC) Non Ministrari sed Ministrare ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Healing@justus.anglican.org See http://justus.anglican.org/mailman/listinfo/healing -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060801/3b517ea2/attachment.htm From ttemple5 at bellsouth.net Tue Aug 1 21:49:10 2006 From: ttemple5 at bellsouth.net (Tim Temple) Date: Tue Aug 1 21:49:19 2006 Subject: [Healing] Inactivity In-Reply-To: <20060801200504.88732.qmail@web81209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: There was more activity before the sysop became an archbishop in his own little denomination. Also, he is at least partial towards Reiki, which is Japanese Buddhist Shamanism. I have been suspended several times there for giving the occultists too hard a time. Tim Temple christheals.org -----Original Message----- From: healing-bounces+ttemple5=bellsouth.net@justus.anglican.org [mailto:healing-bounces+ttemple5=bellsouth.net@justus.anglican.org]On Behalf Of JOHN & LINDA SURINCHAK Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 4:05 PM To: Healing@justus.anglican.org Subject: [Healing] Inactivity Peter...There are several Orders of St Luke on the internet. These vary by denomination, specialization and origin. The actual healing International Order of St Luke the Physician is based out of San Antonio, Texas (www.orderofstluke.org). Go to that site and click on Discussion Forum on the left hand side of the page. It has a lot more activity on it. Hope this helps. Peace....John+ Br John Surinchak +, OSL Santa Venetia Healing Ministry (UAC) Non Ministrari sed Ministrare -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060801/b3e3030d/attachment.htm From reid at mejac.palo-alto.ca.us Tue Aug 1 21:54:34 2006 From: reid at mejac.palo-alto.ca.us (Brian Reid) Date: Tue Aug 1 21:53:53 2006 Subject: [Healing] Inactivity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0D541029101368F34392DACD@scarborough.isc.org> I am the sysop of this list, and always have been. It operates from a server computer in my home. There was for a while a pretender, but he vanished one day. In its earliest days there was also a moderator, but I haven't heard from her in many many years. > > There was more activity before the sysop became an archbishop in his own little denomination. Also, he is at least partial towards Reiki, which is Japanese Buddhist Shamanism. I have been suspended several times there for giving the occultists too hard a time. > > Tim Temple > christheals.org From PreachingFriar at aol.com Wed Aug 2 02:37:37 2006 From: PreachingFriar at aol.com (PreachingFriar@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 2 02:37:55 2006 Subject: [Healing]-Inactivity. Message-ID: In a message dated 8/1/2006 3:33:10 PM Central Daylight Time, prthomas@iol.ie writes: happened and there is no doubt in my mind that Jesus was in the midst. Here in Southern Ireland I have had some experiences with troubled New Age folk who, perhaps unwittingly, had encountered the unquiet dead in building and specific bits of land. Maybe this came about because of their heightened spiritual/psychic awareness. I think that many in Western Society have rationalised out anything to do with the unknown and relating to the spirit/emotions. The manifestations were dealt with undramatically by myself and another priest. Fr, Peter, Could you talk more about your sense of the importance of deliverance ministry within the Church? Also a larger question for everyone: How should the healing ministry of the Gospel be intergrated into the everyday life of the local parish? In Christ, Fr. Kevin OP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060801/57f06794/attachment-0001.htm From ttemple5 at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 2 02:39:26 2006 From: ttemple5 at bellsouth.net (Tim Temple) Date: Wed Aug 2 02:39:34 2006 Subject: [Healing] Inactivity In-Reply-To: <0D541029101368F34392DACD@scarborough.isc.org> Message-ID: Hey Brian, Thank you for running this on your computer. I notice you prefer BSD. I'm a Linux man myself. For those running Microsoft Outlook, you can divert all of these posts into a subdirectory by first making a subdirectory in your inbox, highlite one of these posts and then use "organize" to create a rule that these posts must always be sent to that subdirectory. That way they don't get in the way of more important email (like viagara ads). -Tim Temple http://www.christheals.org From jab12 at prodigy.net Wed Aug 2 02:56:37 2006 From: jab12 at prodigy.net (JOHN & LINDA SURINCHAK) Date: Wed Aug 2 02:56:45 2006 Subject: [Healing] Who Heals? Message-ID: <20060802025638.94668.qmail@web81201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Peter Thomas is disappointed with the dearth of activity in this discussion group. The following is something which I am also submitting to the Order of St Luke discussion group. Francis MacNutt, the director of the Christian Healing Ministry in Jacksonville, FL, authored an article in his most recent Healing Line newsletter entitled "Does Science Now Prove That Inercessory Prayer Doesn't Work?" http://www.christianhealingmin.org/newsletter/2006/0506Article01.htm In his article MacNutt questions the design of a medical Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer in Cardiac Bypass Patients (STEP) which produced negative results. There were three groups praying for the rapid healing of the patients and MacNutt feels that there are two issues present, 1) did the intercessors accept healing as a blessing from God and 2) were the intercessors experienced?" MacNutt claims that the two groups of Benedictine and Carmelite nuns, although steeped in a Christian prayer tradition, possessed a bias in that "part of their unique calling has been to accept suffering as a kind of substitute martyrdom united to the suffering of Christ." Therefore they did not possess an expectant faith - "a belief that when they pray a real physical healing may take place." The third prayer group was one from the Silent Unity Church in Missouri. This group, who MacNutt referred to as Unitarians, were deficient as "Unitarians do not have the reputation in believing in the uniqueness of Jesus as the Son of God." I disagree with MacNutt's conclusions as he places the healing on the shoulders of the intercessors and thus belittles the power of God. How often have we heard a minister say that the individual does not have to describe their illness as God knows what's wrong? We are dealing with an omnipotent, all powerful, all knowing being....is it necessary for those praying for healing to be experienced, have certain expectations or to possess certain training? To paraphrase the Rev Mark Pearson..."you know how to talk? Well prayer is talking while looking up." MacNutt equivalates the Silent Unity with the Unitarians. This is not accurate. The Unity Church is composed of Christians who posses a long prayer tradition; in fact, a huge one. A visit to their site at www.unityonline.org bears this out. Why did the study have a negative outcome? I don't know, but as a healing prayer minister I have seen several miraculous healing over the years and have received positive reports from many people. I've myself have experienced great results on two occassions with prayer for my knees. Curioser and curioser...I don't pretend to know what God is doing here. All I know is that this study will not deter me from offering healing prayer to those in need. I wish to express my utmost respect for Francis MacNutt. My response to his article is an academic one. Blessings....John Surinchak+, www.SVhealing.org Br John Surinchak +, OSL Santa Venetia Healing Ministry (UAC) Non Ministrari sed Ministrare -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060801/4b3cfab0/attachment.htm From ttemple5 at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 2 03:48:40 2006 From: ttemple5 at bellsouth.net (Tim Temple) Date: Wed Aug 2 03:48:48 2006 Subject: [Healing] Who Heals? In-Reply-To: <20060802025638.94668.qmail@web81201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: For objective information about what Unity believes, see: http://www.carm.org/list/unity.htm The Carmelites and the Benedictines ask for endurance in suffering, not healing. "You have not because you ask not." - James 4:2 Often we expect and pray too low. -Tim T. -----Original Message----- From: healing-bounces+ttemple5=bellsouth.net@justus.anglican.org [mailto:healing-bounces+ttemple5=bellsouth.net@justus.anglican.org]On Behalf Of JOHN & LINDA SURINCHAK Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 10:57 PM To: OSL Group Subject: [Healing] Who Heals? Peter Thomas is disappointed with the dearth of activity in this discussion group. The following is something which I am also submitting to the Order of St Luke discussion group. Francis MacNutt, the director of the Christian Healing Ministry in Jacksonville, FL, authored an article in his most recent Healing Line newsletter entitled "Does Science Now Prove That Inercessory Prayer Doesn't Work?" http://www.christianhealingmin.org/newsletter/2006/0506Article01.htm In his article MacNutt questions the design of a medical Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer in Cardiac Bypass Patients (STEP) which produced negative results. There were three groups praying for the rapid healing of the patients and MacNutt feels that there are two issues present, 1) did the intercessors accept healing as a blessing from God and 2) were the intercessors experienced?" MacNutt claims that the two groups of Benedictine and Carmelite nuns, although steeped in a Christian prayer tradition, possessed a bias in that "part of their unique calling has been to accept suffering as a kind of substitute martyrdom united to the suffering of Christ." Therefore they did not possess an expectant faith - "a belief that when they pray a real physical healing may take place." The third prayer group was one from the Silent Unity Church in Missouri. This group, who MacNutt referred to as Unitarians, were deficient as "Unitarians do not have the reputation in believing in the uniqueness of Jesus as the Son of God." I disagree with MacNutt's conclusions as he places the healing on the shoulders of the intercessors and thus belittles the power of God. How often have we heard a minister say that the individual does not have to describe their illness as God knows what's wrong? We are dealing with an omnipotent, all powerful, all knowing being....is it necessary for those praying for healing to be experienced, have certain expectations or to possess certain training? To paraphrase the Rev Mark Pearson..."you know how to talk? Well prayer is talking while looking up." MacNutt equivalates the Silent Unity with the Unitarians. This is not accurate. The Unity Church is composed of Christians who posses a long prayer tradition; in fact, a huge one. A visit to their site at www.unityonline.org bears this out. Why did the study have a negative outcome? I don't know, but as a healing prayer minister I have seen several miraculous healing over the years and have received positive reports from many people. I've myself have experienced great results on two occassions with prayer for my knees. Curioser and curioser...I don't pretend to know what God is doing here. All I know is that this study will not deter me from offering healing prayer to those in need. I wish to express my utmost respect for Francis MacNutt. My response to his article is an academic one. Blessings....John Surinchak+, www.SVhealing.org Br John Surinchak +, OSL Santa Venetia Healing Ministry (UAC) Non Ministrari sed Ministrare -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060801/11a40005/attachment.htm From prthomas at iol.ie Wed Aug 2 07:44:09 2006 From: prthomas at iol.ie (prthomas) Date: Wed Aug 2 07:44:46 2006 Subject: [Healing] Re:Deliverance Ministry(New Thread) Message-ID: <016201c6b607$73b2c5c0$4733869f@George> Hi Fr.Kevin, To start with I don`t see the deliverance ministry in terms of ? demons under the bed ` philosophy as in McCarthyism with Communism. Deliverance ministry is the end result of much other skilled consideration, counselling, listening, psychology and discernment,among others. It is a ministry of last resort. For if used inappropriately it can have quite the reverse effect to that which was intended. Also, I think the deliverance ministry got a bad press some years ago, and has never really recovered. Church leaders see it as being a bit too risky and best avoided. The term `exorcist`has almost disappeared from church talk, so deliverance is being, like so many other things like death and terminal illness, sanitised. I think it is relevant in the church of today in that the dimension of evil - however one may understand that concept - is largely absent from homilies. A largely one sided Gospel is preached full of theological surmise and social commentary but giving little, if any, information, teaching, reassurance, etc. about the healing ministry in all it`s many dimensions. For it to `take off`again` ( for it was fully functional in the early church) requires leadership by preaching and by example. That can only come, I think, from the Bishops of the church. Many of them pay lip service to the principal of healing, but that is all and it is seen for what it is, a sham.In a sense this answers your second question addressed to all. For healing to operate as a usual part of parish life does depend on authoritative leadership. I know I didn`t go along those lines myself, but just got on with it.Maybe more us should do the same ? I`ve rambled on for too long I`m afraid. Pax Vobiscum. Fr.Peter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060802/80ab3ca3/attachment.htm From prthomas at iol.ie Wed Aug 2 07:49:33 2006 From: prthomas at iol.ie (prthomas) Date: Wed Aug 2 07:50:18 2006 Subject: [Healing] RE : Healing [Who heals] Message-ID: <016901c6b608$3c8c2950$4733869f@George> There is only one healer. That is Jesus Christ through the power of His Holy Spirit and under the love and mercy of God the Father. Too many times have I heard `Christian`healers say "I will take care of that" and "I will heal you " and in so many instances,when it has gone pear shaped admit with a mea culpa expressionn "I`m so sorry my faith was not strong enough" or "My prayers weren`t good enough". When the twelve went out to preach and heal it was in the Name and power of Jesus and through His commission....that is good enough for me. Blessings. Fr.Peter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060802/ff1cf109/attachment-0001.htm From lyngroup at inwave.com Wed Aug 2 16:14:04 2006 From: lyngroup at inwave.com (Jim Lynn) Date: Wed Aug 2 16:14:25 2006 Subject: [Healing] Deliverance Ministry in the Church Message-ID: <002f01c6b64e$acfb6a20$640fa8c0@yourerdmfhmlp8> You wrote: > Could you talk more about your sense of the importance > of deliverance ministry within the Church? How should the > healing ministry of the Gospel be intergrated into the > everyday life of the local parish? Dear Fr. Peter and all, So glad to see the list alive again with discussion. I am a long time list member who reads posts but seldom comments. You asked that we talk more about the importance of a deliverance ministry within the church. I assume you are speaking of a healing ministry. Forgive me for not using Anglican terminology. To me a church without a healing ministry is like a restaurant without a kitchen. One is so much a part of the other, they cannot separately exist. My ministry, God's Healing Word, offers web-based articles on the subject and also a book entitled, The Miracle of Healing in Your Church Today." Our mission is to first teach that God still heals (actively intervenes in our physical lives); And secondly, to train and equip churches to sanction healing ministries. It doesn't matter what denomination asks for our help. We've worked with Catholic, Mennonite, Lutheran, community Churches, etc. Of course, as you know, Most churches today have removed divine healing from their doctrines. This sends a conflicting message to Christians who read in their Bible that God heals. I would like to invite you and other list members to visit God's Healing Word website, to read our archived articles, and download our free ebook (actually it is the first 3 chapters from The Miracle Of Healing In Your Church Today). Here's the link to our mission website: http://godshealingword.org Just imagine what a difference any Bible believing Church would make in the lives of people in towns and communities everywhere, if they knew that Church is known for healing the sick. That, my brothers and sisters, IMO is what a Church is all about: Healing (saving) the sick and setting prisoners free from their jailor. Sadly, the Christian community has long departed from that ideal. Many blessings in Christ Jesus, Jim Lynn God's Healing Word Ministry 815-986-7361 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060802/60ce6782/attachment.htm From ttemple5 at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 2 19:42:37 2006 From: ttemple5 at bellsouth.net (Tim Temple) Date: Wed Aug 2 19:42:46 2006 Subject: [Healing] Iatrogenic disease In-Reply-To: <002f01c6b64e$acfb6a20$640fa8c0@yourerdmfhmlp8> Message-ID: In Jim Lynn's book, he wrote, "iatrogenic disease is a disease, sickness, impairment, disfigurement, or death caused by the practice of ?acceptable? medical care (excluding malpractice or other medical mistakes)." I know a woman who had massive x-rays to try to kill off her cancer. Not only did it not kill the cancer, but it wiped out the small intestines' ability to absorb food value. She had to give herself an intravenous of big bags of food solution five days a week, 10 hours a session. In the meantime the cancer was still advancing. She had been this way for over six months when I found out about it. I called up a brother on the southside of town who had the gift of miracles, knowing that was what she needed. (The fact that miracles had happened when he prayed indicated he had that gift.) I have a gift of healing cancer. We went to her house and prayed for her for three hours. She got a checkup two days later. Half the cancer was gone. She stopped shooting up the food bags and ate normally. She didn't lose weight any more. That was a month ago. She left town last week, to go to a hospital that specializes in cancer to get rid of the rest of it. I wish her well.... --Tim Temple christheals.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060802/59646277/attachment.htm From PreachingFriar at aol.com Thu Aug 3 12:02:38 2006 From: PreachingFriar at aol.com (PreachingFriar@aol.com) Date: Thu Aug 3 12:02:51 2006 Subject: [Healing] Re:Deliverance Ministry(New Thread) Message-ID: <57d.2b9835f.32033fde@aol.com> Fr. Peter, Thanks I would tend to agree with your overall assessment. However, where can priests and other non-ordained ministers get training in the ancient ministry of exoricst, today? In Christ, Fr. Kevin OP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060803/f5f99ef4/attachment.htm From ttemple5 at bellsouth.net Thu Aug 3 18:43:59 2006 From: ttemple5 at bellsouth.net (Tim Temple) Date: Thu Aug 3 18:44:11 2006 Subject: [Healing] inner healing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We all know by faith that Jesus is the Answer. But HOW is Jesus the answer for traumas in the past that emotionally handicap someone? What does Romans 8:2 mean when Paul says, "For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death?" --Tim Temple -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060803/1f79854f/attachment.htm From mike.endicott at virgin.net Fri Aug 4 08:23:04 2006 From: mike.endicott at virgin.net (Mike Endicott) Date: Fri Aug 4 08:24:52 2006 Subject: [Healing] inner healing References: Message-ID: <001101c6b79f$35be8800$0201a8c0@MikeEnicott> Could you help me please? I am trying to remove my address from this list and can't seem to be able to do it. Any advice? ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Temple To: Online Order of St Luke Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 7:43 PM Subject: [Healing] inner healing We all know by faith that Jesus is the Answer. But HOW is Jesus the answer for traumas in the past that emotionally handicap someone? What does Romans 8:2 mean when Paul says, "For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death?" --Tim Temple ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Healing@justus.anglican.org See http://justus.anglican.org/mailman/listinfo/healing -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060804/c4d00091/attachment.htm From prthomas at iol.ie Fri Aug 4 17:10:55 2006 From: prthomas at iol.ie (prthomas) Date: Fri Aug 4 17:11:22 2006 Subject: [Healing]Deliverance Ministry Message-ID: <018501c6b7e8$f40f58e0$0232869f@George> Hello Fr. I received training in a convent in Newbury (England) it was,I think, under the auspices of `The Churches`Fellowship for Psychical and Spiritual Studies`. I recommend as an into to the whole topic a book published by them :`Psychical and Spiritual` Michael Perry. Published 2003. ISBN 0 902666 43 6 Hope it helps. Blessings. Fr.Peter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060804/bd4b6461/attachment.htm From ttemple5 at bellsouth.net Sat Aug 5 01:51:37 2006 From: ttemple5 at bellsouth.net (Tim Temple) Date: Sat Aug 5 01:51:55 2006 Subject: [Healing] the Lord of Arguments In-Reply-To: <57d.2b9835f.32033fde@aol.com> Message-ID: Decades ago I was in the slums of Santa Barbara in my apartment unit, doing a private Bible study. Two apartment buildings away, there was an acrimoniuos argument going on. After two hours, I was getting tired of it. As an experiment, I very quietly said, "Satan, leave them alone, in the name of Jesus." In a few seconds they were making up and quieted down. Interesting. Since then, I have done this dozens of times with the same results. I have told this to other brethren who have found it works for them too. Try it. No human has to hear you. --Tim Temple christheals.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060804/d88a89d4/attachment.htm From ttemple5 at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 7 14:19:31 2006 From: ttemple5 at bellsouth.net (Tim Temple) Date: Mon Aug 7 14:19:40 2006 Subject: [Healing] Occultism Resources In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dr. Kurt Koch (1913-1987) was a noted German theologian, minister and evangelist. Dr. Koch pastored in the state Lutheran church as well as studied the occult and ministered to those suffering from demon affliction and the occult. His ministry took him to more than 65 countries on all 5 continents. He wrote nine books on the occult. "Christian Counseling and Occultism: A Complete Guidebook to Occult Oppression and Deliverance" is the definitive book on demon possession. He presents numerous pastoral cases from the field of occultism, a critical assessment of the cases as a doctor and as a pastor, and the way of liberation from occult subjection. (338 pages) I am partial towards this book because when I got demonized in church, this book got me free. I was in fellowship with Southern Baptists who didn't believe any of this, but I knew what was happening and ran to a Christian bookstore for help. I still have that original book and I cherish it. "Between Christ and Satan" is a much smaller book that investigates 160 examples of occultism he has encountered while counseling people. "Demonology Past and Present" discusses the work of demons and firsthand observations of people involved in demonic activity. "The Devil's Alphabet" reviews 47 forms of superstition, fortune-telling, magic and spiritism. "God Among the Zulus" is a graphic account of God's work among the Zulus in Africa. "Occult ABC" is a comprehensive examination of 71 forms of occult activity, their effect, deliverance from them, and victory in Christ. "Occult Bondage and Deliverance" is an introduction to the counseling of individuals who are involved in occult activity. The series of books are a little dated, since they don't cover the more recent Hindu, Buddhist and Shaman incursions into the West included in "The New Age." --Tim Temple christheals.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060807/12bfb7e0/attachment.htm From ttemple5 at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 16 18:44:18 2006 From: ttemple5 at bellsouth.net (Tim Temple) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:44:18 -0400 Subject: [Healing] Argentina Revival Resources In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Argentina has been in Christian revival for years. They had major occult problems down there. There was Umbanda and Quimbanda, variations on the Vodoun theme. They had animism. They had the residue from bloody religions that God wiped out. Here are Argentines who had a hand in bringing this revival and wrote books about it: Carlos Annacondia wrote "Listen to Me, Satan!" This book tells of his experiences as an evangelist/exorcist. He is having a major impact in Argentina. Pablo Bottari wrote "Free In Christ: your complete handbook on the ministry of deliverance." He is running Annacondia's deliverance tent, bringing deliverance to about 100 people a night. He has gained a lot of wisdom through his experience. Harold Caballeros wrote "Victorious Warfare." He relates a lot of teaching and theory about revival. Ed Silvoso wrote "That None Should Perish: How to Reach Entire Cities for Christ through Prayer Evangelism." This is a practical manual on how to do just that. Ed also wrote "Anointed for Business" on how Christians can use their positions of influence to make a profound impact on the world. All of these books are available in Spanish, since they were translated to English for us. --Tim Temple christheals.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://justus.anglican.org/pipermail/healing/attachments/20060816/2fb579b8/attachment.html